Re: Any WWDC News
Re: Any WWDC News
- Subject: Re: Any WWDC News
- From: Trae Nickelson <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:07:47 -0500
Georg,
I think we will just have to respectfully disagree on these points.
The important point is: WO is our problem. But we have to solve our
client's problems. And 95% of the time this has absolutely nothing to
do with technology! We are not payed to sell them WO, but to fix their
pains - you call a doctor because you are ill, not because you would
like to have an aspirin!
Again, just not my experience. I have in fact discovered the inverse.
At least 95% of the time, technology choice comes into question, no
matter how hard or eloquently I try to avoid it. (Man, it pisses me
off to think of having to AVOID it.)
I AM right! When I go to a banking or telecom client I do not speak
with the cleaning lady - I am sure she is religious about the
detergents they use. I also do not speak to the IT-Manager - she is
also am member of the Seattle church. I speak to the gold owner - the
one who runs the company and feels all the pain too. And after our
small talk, he calls the IT manager and tells her she either must
change her believe system or start looking for another employer. BTW,
this is my experience not only from my current company, but also from
my previous one, and from the time when I was working for a US
consulting company (so the argument that here on Mars we have more
open-minded IT managers really does not count). This was true 8 years
ago, this was true in the boom high days, and this is true now.
This may be the real difference between your success and my
frustration. You must be the best sales person on the planet. Maybe
I'm on Mars, but I think you have over simplified the sales process a
little. Just call up the C?O's direct line, explain how you want to
change their lives, and instantly become his/her best confidant? Show
him/her the light in a short conversation so convincingly that they are
ready to clean house if people don't start seeing the light? That is
amazing. If you can package your sales techniques in a book, you will
be a rich man.
My experience (also over-simplified): We can't always get to the gold
owner. The IT-Manager was hired because he/she fooled somebody into
thinking they were competent enough to make such decisions. The C?O is
out on the golf course, or some speaking engagement, or insulated in
the ivory tower. An unknown technology recommendation can very
realistically kill the whole deal.
Also I do not believe in "successful" marketing! Everyone speaks about
XP (eXtreme Programming) as being superior to waterfall methodologies.
Yeah but WO has teeth. It's not some corn-ball theory. It's packaged
and sold. Well - it's packaged and COULD BE sold.
I have a prediction... Within the next 2 or 3 years, some other
solution, outside of Apple will finally emerge that will eclipse
WebObjects. You, me, and every other non-religious technologist will
gladly move on and not look back in WebObjects' direction. Then - a
year or so after that - Apple will pull their heads out of their
butts, realize the opportunity they squandered, and futilely try to
sell us on WebObjects again. Too little, too late.
Wrong!
1. After 3 years EOF (or its successor) will be still be #1. To build
something like this you need a decade - not a year. I know the way
NeXT and later Apple walked through - from DBKit to EOF1, EOF2... To
walk this way one needs time, and the NeXT team... I am not so sure if
I would be able to say the same for the WO part... But now we have
CoreData ... fuzzy is the future - but bright.
I guess time will tell. If EOF is still the best, I will be using it
too. But, ironically, I kind of feel like Apple is the Xerox PARC of
enterprise data frameworks - cool technologies, but they aren't doing
anything with it. Don't think that others have not smelled the
potential. They'll steal it- improve upon it - and make a success of
it. I've heard that several of the original NeXT engineers are out
there somewhere (some even in Richmond) building the successor. Data
access frameworks and Object-Relational mapping is an area where
hundreds of engineers in many companies outside of Apple are putting a
lot of energy. No way it takes them a decade - especially if given the
proper resources. Plus, they get to build on what NeXT/Apple has
already built.
CoreData- I have no first-hand knowledge of it - I was not at WWDC.
But - We just heard mention of it less than a week ago. Isn't it too
early to decide that it is our savior? That sounds like religion-based
decision at this point in the game. But what if it's AWESOME? Then
again, what if it's awesome, and Apple makes no effort to push it (as
they do with WebObjects) outside of its existing enterprise developer
base? No way - that would be just stupid right? Don't dismiss the
possibility. It would be stupid then, and it's just as stupid now.
Realistically CoreData is still - what - 3 years out minimum? Tiger in
June 2005 say with a limited local machine CoreData. Then another year
(minumum) to get true EOF-level features. Then another year of the EOF
vs. CoreData arguments and conversion wars. And what IF another
company provides a viable alternative to EOF somewhere in there? Will
any of us really be able to stick around?
The only way to survive such a stressful conversion will be to have a
loyal base of enterprise developers willing to go through it all. The
population of the WebObjects/EOF developer base is currently negligible
in most respects - and is eroding rapidly. (Please don' argue that we
are not negligible - even APPLE considers us negligible apparently.) We
might be looking at 3 more years of more erosion, with the possibility
- no LIKELIHOOD - of a viable alternative popping into the equation.
Who will be around to care if or if not CoreData is an enterprise
developers dream? Here's a wacky thought - CoreData's best hope of
having a large impact in the Enterprise IT space is for Apple to expand
the current WebObjects market.
2. We are not going to abandon 100k+ lines of reusable home grown
frameworks just because there is a new gadget. I will most certainly
do play with new technologies as I always do.
Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but if something BETTER comes
along (not just a new gadget), I will make the non-religious decision
to use it. Gladly. Until then, of course, I concede that EOF/WO is
the best there is.
Thanks, Georg.
Trae
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