Re: Any WWDC News
Re: Any WWDC News
- Subject: Re: Any WWDC News
- From: Trae Nickelson <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:52:35 -0500
Owen,
You've done everything right. You have selected the best tool out
there. You've probably learned to use the tool with considerable
mastery. I have too. A lot of us have. You love the tool. I do too.
We all do.
But maybe it's time to stop making excuses for Apple and the WO team.
You, Owen, deserve better. We all do.
I know it's easy for me to spout my frustrations sitting here in
Houston, Texas. I might be more reserved and retain a higher sense of
loyalty and patience if I were there in San Francisco with you, Berney,
and the others. But from this angle, it looks like you and the others
there have just been crapped on for the nth year in a row. I'm pissed
for you, even if you are not.
How much more can you take, Owen? "WO isn't actually going
anywhere..." - I've become convinced that you couldn't be more right.
WO isn't going anywhere! Lack of man power? Lack of resources?
That's exactly the problem!
Maybe next year's the year, right? I told myself that too several
times over the past 2 days. It was too familiar of a feeling - the
same I had for the previous 5 or so years - and it left a bad taste in
my mouth. I have now recognized that hope as mild insanity.
Look, I won't jump to a lesser product either. I'm stuck for now. But
I'm not going to hold hope for WebObjects under Apple's direction
anymore. I think that we have seen the beginning of the end here.
That being said, I'm not opting for a graceful exit. I will still
subscribe to the lists. Some of you will likely get tired of hearing
from me - I apologize in advance. I won't litter the list with random
rants. I know we are all trying to get work done and this is a
developers technical forum. But when the occasional newbie wanders in
with the obligatory "Why WebObjects?" question, I will be vocally
honest with them. I would hope all of us would. They should know what
they're in for.
Who knows, if we all just shake things up a bit, maybe something good
will come of it.
I am forever the optimist.
Trae
On Jun 30, 2004, at 3:37 PM, Owen McKerrow wrote:
Whoooo. Big decision.
I was at the same session. I to came away feeling disappointed. BUT WO
isn't actually going anywhere, true its not progressing as fast as we
would like but as they stressed during teh session, Apple, internal
Apple, relies far to heavily on WebObjects to just let it die. And
when you hear about the other things they are doing (Apple) it
doesn't surprise me that some technologies aren't being updated simply
due to lack of man power, its unfortunate that once again WO is one of
these.
But as you said yourself its a great App/Framework/All in one wizz
bang sandwich maker, so why jump ship ? Why jump to a lesser product ?
Apple know there is problems with WO, they want/need to fix them, and
they did say they will, but not this year.
Am I annoyed ? Hell yeah. BUT I don't see any reason just yet to YELL
Abandon Ship!
Owen
On 30/06/2004, at 12:56 PM, Trae Nickelson wrote:
Thanks for the frankness, Berney. I think you have provided the last
straw for me. Your news is heart-breaking really.
I am assuming that you sent your thoughts after attending the
633-WebObjects Overview session, promising "an overview and roadmap
for WebObjects" and "the exciting news that Apple has planned for
WebObjects in the year ahead."
I am completely baffled by it all. Apple is trying to make inroads
into enterprise, it owns absolutely the most mature and robust
enterprise-level frameworks (WO & EO), its technology along with some
aggressive marketing could easily make a joke of other web app
vendors (IBM, BEA, Macromedia) - AND ITS LAYING A BIG EGG!
If you traveled all that way, and paid your admission (not cheap by
any means), and still did not receive a fair, upfront indication of
what the %#$@ Apple plans to do with WebObjects - you deserve a full
refund. Raise a little hell while you're there. Go to the remaining
WO/EO sessions and make those spineless twits "put-up or shut-up".
They should at least muster up the balls to tell all of us to move
on, that there is nothing more to see here, that we (the WO
community) are fighting a losing battle.
I feel your pain, buddy; I know a lot of us do. This is the 4th or
5th WWDC in a row where I was just POSITIVE that Apple would prove
that its head was now out of its ass and we would hear something that
we are all longing to hear. I've grown numb to it now. Sad.
There is a great post to the list today from the Project Wonder folks
announcing Project Wonder 2.0 . A brave and valiant effort by a
bunch of really sharp minds. But I fear they are wasting their
notable talents rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. They should
not have to be carrying the platform the way they are - Apple quite
frankly has done nothing to deserve such enthusiasm or support.
Wonder Dev Team, by no means do I mean to belittle your
accomplishments. Quite the contrary, I am enraged that you are
providing the only real progress in the WO world. You deserve
better, and I don't think you're going to get it from Apple. Let it
go. Pull the plug.
I'm jumping ship. I would suggest we all consider doing the same.
Let's put this thing out of its misery and move on with our lives.
Trae Nickelson
WebObjects Developer (6 years)
Houston, TX
I have to say that I walked away very depressed from today's WO
session. In a conference where the hype is all about a beta version
of
Xcode (v1.5), and a major upgrade to the toolset (v2.0) "within a
year", the fact that WO didn't say a word about the future, speaks
volumes about its future. They couldn't even say a bug fix release
was
in the works..
WO was a great tool, and still has features you can't find elsewhere,
but the Java world is moving quickly and others will get there soon.
I can't afford to get linked to a technology that stagnates or a
company that is more focused on selling a proprietary set of APIs.
Mac
OS X is the best operating system in the world, but right now I don't
see much that differentiates Cupertino from Redmond. Both want to
"lock-in" their bread and butter. At least that's how I read the
Xcode
2.0 modeling effort. It's not really a pre-curser to an updated EOF.
Sorry for the negativity. This was my first WWDC and WO was the
reason
I came here. I think I'll spend some time down at the JavaOne
conference tomorrow.
Berney Bradley
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