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Re: Time out!
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Re: Time out!


  • Subject: Re: Time out!
  • From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:03:38 -0700

Hi,

On Aug 12, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Deepak Nulu wrote:

I use Eclipse at work, and I think it is one of the best (if not the best) IDEs for Java. The new functionality that I see in each new release makes me smile just the way the new innovative user- interfaces developed by Apple makes me smile. I see many things in Eclipse and wonder why no one has thought of it before (maybe they have and I am not aware of it). My latest favorite in Eclipse is the smart-semicolons. You can press the semicolon key anywhere in a line and it will insert it at the end. This is such a productivity boost that I can't live without it. There are a lot of such tiny things that just make Eclipse a wonderful IDE. Kind of like the many tiny things in Mac OS X that makes it more productive and joyful to use.

While I have heard that IntelliJ is even _better_ (!), you have described my experience with Eclipse perfectly. I don't care in the least that it does not look like a Cocoa app.



I only recently started to learn about WO and was using XCode at the beginning. I did not want to switch to WOLips/Eclipse because I was already tired of scaling the steep learning curve of WO and I did not want to spend more time learning how to set up and use WOLips/Eclipse. But as much as I tried, I could not tolerate the productivity loss in XCode. And so I decided to take the hit and switch to WOLips/Eclipse.

Agreed. The productivity boost is jaw dropping.


I am not a fan of manually editing the wod files. I was impressed when I first saw drag-and-drop bindings in WOBuilder (even though I am used to it since Nextstep days with InterfaceBuilder; I just did not expect it for a web-based UI builder :-). So I stick with WOBuilder and EOModeller (you just need to have XCode up and running in the background) and do everything else in WOLipse/Eclipse.

I do like the auto-completion in the .wod editor in WOLips, but I don't like the fact that the HTML file and the WOD file editing are separate (it is the same in WOBuilder as well if you are not using drag-n-drop). Having to "declare" a component in the HTML file and then switch over to the WOD view to "define" its bindings is not efficient; there is too much loss of context.

I think that Mike (who also wrote this editor) has a different work flow than many of us do. IIRC, he always starts with the WOD definitions and then moves on to the HTML. If that is not how you work (or want to or can work), then it probably won't feel as powerful for you as it does for him. However, that does not mean that there can't be an alternate editor. We are not stuck with the "one and only editor syndrome" here. I expect that this next year will bring at least one competing vision for editing .wo resources. Some will use one, some will use the other. Some, like me, will probably use both depending on the task at hand and the project.



I wish the WOLips editor created a virtual view where the HTML file and the WOD file are combined so that the "definition" of the bindings is in the same place as the "declaration" of the component. The virtual view can then generate the HTML and WOD files behind the scenes. The virtual view could use its own notation which should be shorter than having to type "<WEBOBJECTS name=""></WEBOBJECTS>" boilerplate HTML code (this boilerplate is a pain even though Eclipse has templates that can make this easier).

An import point to consider here is that we are not limited to this traditional implementation. The only restriction that the WO frameworks place is that there is an implementation for


public WOElement template()

I have seen (I think it was another of David Terans "do it like this" examples that allowed there to me no .wod file, with the HTML containing (for example)

<WebObject name="Foo" WOComponent="WOHyperlink" class="bigLink" string=linkTitle/>

He provided a parser that would take this and return the root element.

Let your imagination run wild!

Chuck


On Aug 12, 2006, at 11:11 AM, Arturo Pérez wrote:


On Aug 12, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Michael Halliday wrote:



It is funny ... I installed Eclipse for the first time 2 weeks ago, before all this WWDC crazy. Just to see what all the fuss was about. I must admit the interface was completely different than XCode (obviously) and just didn't have the "feel" I was used to. I posted on Robert's blog last night ... I can see exactly where he is coming from.



I've used Eclipse at work for quite a while and I've used Xcode for Java development. I've been a Java developer for almost a decade now.


My opinion is that Eclipse is far superior to Xcode for pure Java development. I mean, really, there isn't any comparison at all. But the fact that Xcode includes EOModeller and WOBuilder really swing the balance to it for WO work.

That, and the fact that I have abysmal luck in getting Eclipse plug-ins to work, have kept me on Xcode for WO development. (Seriously, I have tried to get something like 50 Eclipse plug-ins working. I think I've gotten maybe 5-6 to work).

-arturo

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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Re: Time out!
      • From: "Joe Little" <email@hidden>
    • Re: Time out!
      • From: Anjo Krank <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Time out! (From: email@hidden)
 >Re: Time out! (From: Michael Halliday <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Time out! (From: Arturo Pérez <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Time out! (From: Deepak Nulu <email@hidden>)

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