Re: WebObjects become opensource ?
Re: WebObjects become opensource ?
- Subject: Re: WebObjects become opensource ?
- From: Joe Little <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:14:17 -0700
Um, short term gain, long term loss I think :(
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Mike Schrag <email@hidden> wrote:
> The twist on this, I suppose, is that we should ENCOURAGE people to leave
> the community so we can kick their asses and steal their contracts by
> continuing to build WO apps.
>
> ms
>
> On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:29 PM, Christian Trotobas wrote:
>
>> Just for the exercise of giving another point of view: my company does not
>> plan at all to drop WO. On the contrary, we are able to introduce the
>> framework to new customers in France for 3 years now, and we train new WO
>> developers every year.
>>
>> For public institutions, it is true that they are pushing forward open
>> source technologies. But there are plenty of Websphere and Weblogic out
>> there, too. The true war, in my opinion, is not "private" solutions against
>> open source solutions, but Websphere or Weblogic or MS or... against all the
>> others, including open sources solutions and WO. Not a new situation since
>> big consulting companies have already dropped WO for years and years. Good
>> point, they are looking in the Apple area again, thanks to the iPhone. Let's
>> take it as an opportunity, though I totally agree with the others posters
>> that it won't be easy at all.
>>
>> Another comment: AFAIK, WO is supported by small dev companies only, or to
>> be more accurate: very small dev companies or indies. Not easy to target the
>> main companies or institutions with such a taxonomy. But there are plenty of
>> other market segments where WO meet the needs perfectly. Fortunately, a lot
>> of companies still care about return on investment and time to market, or
>> quick prototyping. And WO is pretty good at that.
>>
>> From my point of view, I can't see why an open source WO would perform
>> much much better on the market than the current "privately hold" version. We
>> would still face MS and Websphere and Weblogic and jBoss and friends, not
>> talking of Rails and other nice frameworks in java or not.
>>
>> What I expect is: people who argue today that they want to drop WO because
>> it is not opensource, they will argue tomorrow that it is not a mainstream
>> technology, that it is not that j2ee compliant or not enough, that they is
>> not enough developers, that Apple have released it but that they are still
>> behind the product, etc, etc, etc. Therefore, what we would gain —the open
>> source label— would be far less than what we would loose —Apple management
>> and commitment on the long term.
>>
>> The actual (only ?) point we should argue with Apple (again, my personal
>> point of view) : if Apple get so much from WO, they need developers now and
>> in the future, at least to be able to hire them to enable their own growth.
>> My guess is that they are deeply aware of that fact. We wait for a concrete
>> action from them and hopefully, a marketing effort. The first and only step
>> is to give confidence in the future of the product, and among others, this
>> is what a roadmap is made for. Or a dedicated website. Or a killing JS
>> framework. Or all of them at once.
>>
>>
>> But in the meantime, please let's continue and advocate. For a few years,
>> and maybe for a while in the future, we are not only WO developers and
>> supporters, but also marketing people by need. Today, nobody on Earth shares
>> a better position than ours to advocate WO. Sometimes, unfortunately, it
>> comes to believing or not. If we don't, who will ?
>>
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 sept. 2009, at 11:01, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>
>>> I get reports from multiple people in France that are saying the same
>>> thing. Based on those reports, it look like most WO devs in France are/will
>>> drop WO in the next 12 months, and France was one of the biggest WO "market"
>>> :-/
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:14 AM, Mike Nowak wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't care particularly if its open source. I just want a road
>>>>>> map or a deprecation date if any.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, me too
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the opposite, we are giving up on WO because our clients (French
>>>> public institutions) want open source solutions.
>>>>
>>>> JPM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> Pascal Robert
>>>
>>> http://www.macti.ca | http://www.linkedin.com/in/macti
>>>
>>> Skype | Twitter | AIM/iChat : MacTICanada
>>>
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