Re: x11-users-some gui stuff
Re: x11-users-some gui stuff
- Subject: Re: x11-users-some gui stuff
- From: Michael <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:26:00 -0700
"Okay, I think this is the crux of the problem." and therein lies the
rub.
Apple, having supreme overlord status with all things AHIG (Apple's
Human Interface Guidelines) has provided Mac users with a "pretty
darned" consistent experience across nearly all apps. X11 developers
have had similar guidelines, but not nearly the same level of
oversight/support/fascism (you pick ;-) ).
While Microsoft has recently adopted a more controlling HIG front with
it's developers, X11 developers are still generally divided among
several GUI fronts. KDE, GNOME, Enlightenment,.. (Yeah, I know. Shows
you what I know about Unix and X11).
Anyhooo. X11 is just a window server/client. It's not a gui. So in
evaluating app/window server/manager experiences, try to bear in mind,
things are different here. It's not MacSlo-S, or Winblows. It's X11
running on Darwin (pretty close to freeBSD) with quartz-wm in OSX?
Which of course begs the musical question: Will Apple release OS9 into
the public domain? ;)
If you want a pseudo rooted AND rootless window manager, try
Enlightenment. I'm diggin' it!
"Good night, and God bless."
Red Skelton
Michael
On Saturday, September 13, 2003, at 10:01 PM,
email@hidden wrote:
Message: 2
From: "Kevin Keeney" <email@hidden>
To: email@hidden
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Continuing saga of missing X-window
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:32:59 -0500
I'm wondering...are you expecting Quartz-WM to create a window on
your
screen inside of which individual X applications will appear
(basically,
a
Multiple-Document Interface)?
you are correct. All the info I have from reading, says I should
have a
GUI window.
Okay, I think this is the crux of the problem. All that X11.app does
is
start up the X server. The X server is what X-based programs use to
display
their windows; it is not a GUI by itself. X11.app puts an icon on
your Dock
and lets the X server take over.
The X server runs the script /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc. This script
tells the
server several things, but the last two items are the ones we're
concerned
with. The last line runs Quartz-WM. The second-to-last item runs
Xterm.
Quartz-WM is called a "rootless" window manager because it does not
change
your desktop wallpaper and it does not give you any menus when you
click on
an empty portion of the desktop. This is different from most Unix
window
managers.
Quartz-WM also does not create any windows. It just gives the windows
for
applications that you open the same "decorations" as Aqua windows: the
three
button at the upper left, the Aqua colors, and stuff like that. All
of your
Unix apps will sit directly on your desktop along with any native Mac
windows. It's basically just like using Mac Classic apps, except that
Unix
apps with Quartz-WM look more like MacOSX apps than Classic apps do.
So, to sum up. We have launched X11.app. X11.app has started the X
server.
The X server, in turn, has started Quartz-WM. So far, no windows
have
been created.
This is where the second-to-last line in /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc comes
in.
It runs Xterm. That is why Xterm appears on your screen when you
launch
X11.app. We finally have a window! Not a GUI window, granted, but
it's a
start.
If my xterm
can be used as such, I am lost. If I need to load a windowmanager
then I
can do so, How can I use
GIMP on X11 with only a command line terminal? Even if just to test
I
loaded it correctly into X11.
Xterm is not a GUI, but you can use it to launch other apps. Do you
have
rclock installed? (If not, try installing it with Fink; rclock is
small.)
Type "/sw/bin/rclock" in the xterm window. A little graphical clock
should
appear, in its own window.
You should be able to run other (useful) apps like GIMP, Knode, or
whatever
the exact same way. (Once you've installed them, of course!)
(You'll probably want to add your apps to the Applications menu,
rather than
using Xterm. I believe that others have told you how to customize that
menu. Once you've got a nice setup, you might want to remove the
Xterm line
from xinitrc so that you don't keep getting an Xterm window that you
never
use whenever you launch X11.app. Just a thought.)
I have it loaded on Jaquar, GIMP and all my other graphics, but
want to
learn to use all the Open
source programs and learn to build and install them myself instead of
using Fink. I would rather
mess up X11 than Jaquar! I'm starting X11 on it's own partition. If
(when)
I screw up, I only screw
X11.
I'm afraid I can't help you with compiling software yourself under
MacOSX,
except to tell you that the need Apple's Developer Kit to even get
started.
I'm sure that other lists can help you out.
Unix seems to be the floor or foundation of it all. So I need to
learn all
I can and go up from here.
Learn to build and install source and binarys and then learn to
compile on
project builder and code
warrior.
Up in the rockies here, I only have my books and the net to learn
from. So
thanks for all the info
and advice.
Is this correct, I reply to your address, instead of the forums?
I don't know what the protocol is for this group. I think you're
supposed
to post to the group, and maybe copy the mail to the person's address.
I am
going to send this to the group as well as to you in case less
long-winded
people than me can point out developer resources for you or correct any
mistakes I made. 8-)
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--__--__--
Message: 3
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Missing window found!
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 01:35:53 +0000
Thanks Kevin!
double thanks for the plain language also,lol. so The window is there
but only when called for by
an app. Makes sense. I was looking for an empty window to mirrow my
normal desktop. So, I
have been chasing for the wild goose under my own feets. Just
mentioned the rest of the
compiling to show why I wanted a window. It will come with the rest,
thanks.
One hint for newbies, I have not seen it anywhere and Apple tech line
didn't know about it.
There is an error line tagged in just above your prompt line on
Terminal. Tied to vi, it lets you
know any mistakes in your entries. I dropped a letter in a pathway and
lost a file. Spent an hour
trying to find out why the file disappeared. The error line was
giving me the line I had made the
error in. It was then easy to go back and correct it.
Thanks to all and good nite.
Mick
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