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Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data
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Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data


  • Subject: Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data
  • From: Andre <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:32:52 -0800


On 平成 18/02/10, at 13:05, Cem Karan wrote:

I see, yea, currently things are pretty limited, I've toyed with the idea of making my own modeler app, but then I ran into the setSubentities: bug....

What is that bug?
[NSEntityDescription setSubentities:] is supposed to set an array of entities to become "sub entities" of the receiver. So, like in the Xcode modeler, you create an abstract entity, set some shared relationships, and attributes, then create a concrete entity(s) that derive from that super-entity. The problem is, doing this in code, simply sets the name of the super entity for the entities that are becoming "sub entities."

So as a simple example, if I create an entity called "AbstractModel" wiith attributes, eyeColor, hairColor, and IQ, and I make a concerete entity that should derive from that abstract entity, using [AbstractSuperModel setSubEntities:[NSArray arrayWithObject: SuperModel]] SuperModel entity does not, apparently, inherit the attributes of AbstractSuperModel..... I've tried many different work arounds, even saving the model to a file (made in code), importing it into XCode Modeler (which does show the relationships as correct), recompiling the model after importing in another empty app, and running it, to my dismay, the properties were not inherited.

Either apple's documentation is not clear (setSubentites really only is to set the name) or its a bug IMO. If it does set it's name only, how useful is that?
My "workaround" was to do a category on NSEntityDescription overriding the method in question, and propagating the properties manually.


4) The only way I've been able to think of for specifying enumerations is to have an abstract entity that all of the concrete entities declare as their parent; entities that need to use the enumeration specify that they expect an entity of the abstract type. Is this the best way of doing things in the modeler?
Can you give an example what you mean by enumerator? I'm not sure I understand...

Maybe I should have said a union rather than an enumeration: basically, I would like to be able to directly model something like the following:



struct foo { enum type; union object { struct { char bee; int hello; } a;

		struct {
			uint64_t baz;
		} b;

		struct {
			double betty;
		} c;
	};
};

(Directly typed into Mail, there are probably some bugs in there)

Currently, my solution to this problem is to make 'object' an abstract type. 'a', 'b', and 'c' all derive from 'object'. Depending on the value stored in 'type', I select which concrete type 'object' really is. The problem with this solution is that I have to remember what enum value goes with which type. I would rather be able to create a fetch request which could tell me the type stored in object, or, better yet, if I go to fetch the object, CoreData automagically returns the object that is currently stored there (since it would have to store all the type information in the data store anyways in order to work right).
Perhaps multiple inheritance? In terms of GUI stuff I think MO is maybe not good, but for data modeling, I think Multiple Inheritance may be a very very powerful thing...
I have thought about that myself, and wanted on multiple occasions to do what you describe. My thought was: multiple inheritance.

When I think of multiple inheritance, I think of an object with multiple parents; is that what you're saying? If so, how would it help?
I mean in the sense of entity descriptions, a single entity could inherit from multiple parent entities.

Well, maybe I'm misinterpreting, but for your union above, you would have:
struct {
char bee;
int hello;
} a;
and


		struct {
			uint64_t baz;
		} b;


and

		struct {
			double betty;
		} c;

In my idea, if there were a single entity "foo" who derived from entities a, b, and c, when you want to pull and specific value type of either a b or c, then since the abstract class is compatible with any of a b or c entities, when any request fetches say want only a, foo would get returned, but you could check if (foo.a == nil) or (foo.b==nill) and if so, the ones with no value in member a would not get returned from the fetch. Or, since explicitly calling a fetch for a, the runtime would only would want "a" returned, then core data could simply use its proxy object magic and hide the foo object and wrap any calls to set or get only to the variables known in "a..." is that what your looking for? Maybe I misinterpreted? Because making a union of a b an c means that foo sort of 'is' a b and c right? IOW, the first item you set the value to foo.a or foo.b or foo.c thats the "type" it becomes. If foo.a and foo.b became nil and foo.c wasn't, then its type would be c and calls to return c would return foo. JMHO, maybe MO can help, maybe not....

-------------------

I'm thinking maybe, what you an do now with the current core data is this: make foo an entity. Make a b and c entities with the properties you want. Then in foo, make to-one relations to a b and c.

Now, in any fetch, if a or b or c is not present, you can check for this. So if [foo valueForKey:@"a"] returns nil, then you can assume its not a. In code, further more, if
[foo valueForKey:@"a"] returns not-nil, then you can have method on foo that returns the "kind" like so:


- (NSString *)instanceType
{
	BOOL isA = ([self valueForKey:@"a"] ? YES : NO);
	BOOL isB = ([self valueForKey:@"b"] ? YES : NO);
	BOOL isC = ([self valueForKey:@"c"] ? YES : NO);

	//You want only a single type at a time

	if (isA)
		return @"a";
	if (isB)
		return @"b";
	if (isC)
		return @"c";
}

- (id)instanceValue
{
	//You want only a single type at a time

	if ([self valueForKey:@"a"])
		return [self valueForKey:@"a"];
	if ([self valueForKey:@"b"])
		return [self valueForKey:@"b"];
	if ([self valueForKey:@"c"] )
		return [self valueForKey:@"c"] ;

	return nil;
}

So in an implementation, you could have a fetch tequest for object foo and depending on the type you want, set the predicate to want instanceType == "c" or b or a etc.
In you bindings, any objects that want a "c" value, after your fetch returns all the foo objects that have a "c" member, in the UI you bind to foo.instanceType for the arrangedObjects, and foo.instanceType.betty for value bindings etc.


The only downside is that if both a and b have a value, only a is returned, so you have some problems, but you can account for this in the core data validation methods, and check for example if ("a" != nil and "b" != nill) then you accept "c."

Sorry for the confusing post! Hope I communicated well enough....

5) What is the upper limit to the number of elements that an element can own? I.e., when I specify a 'to-many' relationship, at what point will CoreData break when I add one more element? What is the upper limit on the size of the store? I'm being deliberately vague in that I don't want to find that the SQL store can handle huge amounts of data, but that the binary or XML versions can't.
I would think that uint_32 would be the upper limit until everything is 64-bit. Though I may be mistaken.

Ah, too bad... do you know if there is a way of dynamically discovering this information? I can write my code in such a way as to break up my data among different data stores, which might alleviate this problem, but I can't really reduce the overall amount of data I'm going to end up storing.
Coredata makes use of the objective-c runtime, and basically runs on Key-Value Coding and Key-Value Binding, so its limited to whatever, as Matthew said, is supported by objective-c. Which I'm assuming is Unsigned Integer (currently 32-bit). SQL-lite is just a back-end, so that itself may be capable of more or not, I don't know, but wouldn't make much difference I'm guessing to core data right now.

Too bad; it would be useful to know the info dynamically, so that I can avoid breaking up data into multiple stores on 64 bit machines, but do so on 32 bit machines. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume the lowest common denominator... :-/
Well, maybe not. In the docs for Key-Value Coding, to return a count of items in a to-many, you return an unsigned int like so: - (unsigned int)countOfTransactions.
And NSArray/NSSet that both are used to contain to-many relations for KVC and Core Data return unsigned for their count methods: - (unsigned)count
So I think its safe to assume a collection of 4BN is plausible, though you'd probably run out of RAM first.... when 64-bit cocoa comes out, you can check the docs and do an #ifdef in case they add a method that returns long instead of unsigned...... I suppose.



6) I noticed that CoreData can handle multiple threads (although I haven't explored that aspect yet). Can it be distributed? That is, if I create a cluster of machines, do I end up with a bottleneck because the only way to distribute the data is via NSProxy, or does CoreData have a truly intelligent way of replicating data such that the whole cluster looks like it has one large backing store? If it does have this ability, what about security? That is, do I have to figure out how to setup a VPN, use digital certificates, etc., or is there something in CoreData that will take care of it for me?
So, coredata does not handle any of that AFAIK. This is really Enterprise Objects territory. I think this stuff is also "enhancement report" bound. I myself am hoping (and requesting for) the very things you are looking for.

While Coredata is very powerful for how easy it is to use, there are still some holes to be filled. I do really look forward to Core Data 2.0!

Same here! I could really use the stuff in #6 because what I want to write is a distributed simulator. Most of the time, a node will be handling the data in its own cell (this is FEA code), but it would need to be able to share the data at the surfaces of a cell. I can also see uses for compile farms, and anything else that XGrid is good for, but for it to work well, you really need to be able to rely on the data being there even when nodes fall off the network, and you need to know that only authorized nodes are allowed to access the data (via certificates probably...)

Yea, Enterprise Objects is more suited to what you want in terms of #6. Have you toyed with an Enterprise Objects Cocoa App? The APIs between it and Coredata are pretty similar, though EO has more learning curve its more flexible. I don't think there are any licenses anymore to distribute Cocoa EO apps, but Java and Web Objects apps are supported.... I do wish they had just gave is EO sometimes.... but Coredata is much easier to learn thats for sure. Anyways..........

I haven't tried them because I thought that it was going away in favor of CoreData, but that was just my gut feeling, so I'm likely wrong. I'll take a look at them.
Well, Enterprise Objects is mature, robust and scalable. Who know why they didn't use it, especially now that WO 5.3 is basically free..........


Thanks,
Cem Karan

Andre email@hidden



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 >Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data (From: Cem Karan <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data (From: Andre <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [REPOST] Data Modeler/Core Data (From: Cem Karan <email@hidden>)

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