Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers
Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers
- Subject: Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers
- From: Rick Gordon <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 20:55:46 -0800
John, I would certainly second Chris's motion here, and would also suggest that the Safari team could supply a default setting which would set untagged data to sRGB, in compliance with W3C standards, and offer the user an option to override it for the application and also for the current page (for those pages that have images tweaked to a different standard). I also agree that OS X updates should institute a standard default for 2.2 monitor gamma, which would go a long way to mitigating this issue without any other work.
Rick Gordon
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On 12/18/03 at 8:49 PM -0700, Chris Murphy wrote in a message entitled
"Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers":
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On Dec 18, 2003, at 4:31 PM, John Gnaegy wrote:
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>Can I point out again we're talking about untagged image data? I'm not convinced that assuming sRGB for untagged image data is significantly more reliably accurate than assuming the display profile. For untagged image data you're always just guessing where it came from no matter what you assume.
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It seems pretty self evident to me that it's better to guess ONE THING, even if it's not always correct, than for the guess to be a RANDOM THING which increases the odds that it's not correct astronomically.
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>It guarantees failure to a similar degree of probability as assuming that it's sRGB unless the image was created in sRGB. I would think that if it were created in explicitly sRGB space that there would be an embedded profile.
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Your assumption here is flawed. Most sRGB images are not tagged as sRGB.
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> sRGB isn't identical to "any unknown monitor space", it's not a cure all for the problem of untagged image data.
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It's not meant to be. It's meant to provide a best guess, as well as a consistent guess. No more no less. Assuming monitor RGB is far worse because it's a random guess. And because of the legacy Mac gamma of 1.8 there is a very good chance monitor RGB is a bad guess.
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> Sure I agree sRGB is one way this could have gone, but I don't think it's necessary to completely discard it with the argument that assuming sRGB would have significantly increased your chance of accurately guessing an untagged image's creation environment.
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It significantly increases the chance over monitor RGB, that much is certain.
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>Ideally at some point it'd be nice to have a user configurable equivalent of a system wide working space, I agree from a color geek standpoint.
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I used to think so, and I'd still consider this as an advanced feature that could be buried somewhere. But otherwise I think untagged RGB should equate to sRGB, and put the burden on all of those who do not like this arrangement to embed a more suitable profile. It would dramatically increase consistency between other platforms and the Macintosh to do this, and it would dramatically increase consistency between Macintosh computers to do this. It's win-win.
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> From a performance standpoint it's a win the way it is now without being completely unreasonable. Remember, everything is matched as you'd expect if the image data has an embedded profile.
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And since most images don't have embedded profiles, a monitor RGB workflow mean most everything does not match.
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Chris Murphy
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Color Remedies (TM)
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___________________________________________________
RICK GORDON
EMERALD VALLEY GRAPHICS AND CONSULTING
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| References: | |
| | >Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Steve Upton <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: John Gnaegy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: John Fieber <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: John Fieber <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: John Gnaegy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Grant Symon <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: John Gnaegy <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>) |