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Re: use of sRGB as a default
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Re: use of sRGB as a default


  • Subject: Re: use of sRGB as a default
  • From: John Zimmerer <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:02:35 -0700

Dennis,

Apple will continue to encourage all users on every platform to embed ICC profiles, so that no one need guess at color. If that profile is an sRGB profile, then so be it. The broader point is that color should not be left to assumptions.

It's up to individual users to craft policies for dealing with untagged data. If you wish to assume sRGB, that is your perrogative. I, for one, reject the assertion that all untagged data should be considered as being in sRGB. In my direct experience, most devices that purport to be sRGB devices are not. So, if devices aren't capturing, displaying, or printing sRGB, then why should anyone assume sRGB? That's why Apple chose a generic profile that doesn't suffer from the same limitations of sRGB, yet is still roughly comparable with a display gamut.

And before anyone raises the issue of bandwidth, this is a non sequitur. Embedded RGB profiles only need to be a few kilobytes. Also, broadband adoption is on the rise, so this will be a moot point in the very near future if not today.

Monitor profiles are not assigned as source when printing or saving as PDF. Any app that does this must have a bug. I've already encouraged the list to upgrade to 10.3.4 as we fixed an issue with Preview on this point.

JZ

On Jun 19, 2004, at 3:29 AM, Dennis W. Manasco wrote:

John,

Please excuse my impertinence, but ...

At 1:49 pm -0700 6/17/04, John Zimmerer wrote:

The goal is to make sure each image's color characteristics are defined by an embedded profile, so "untagged data" no longer exists.

This is a noble goal, but it doesn't change the fact that most of us are inundated with untagged files daily; they come from the web, from digital cameras and numerous other sources.

A high percentage of those files actually WERE created in, or converted to, sRGB.


At 2:15 pm -0700 6/17/04, John Zimmerer wrote:

Now about sRGB as a default color space.

We understand that...

We understand that...

We realize that...

We understand sRGB as a color space has severe limitations....

Given all of the above, Apple does not believe that sRGB is an appropriate choice for a default RGB color space for untagged images.


I personally despise sRGB as a working space; it's limits are egregiously obvious when you try to make quality prints using it.

That doesn't mean that I can stick my head in the sand and say it doesn't exist when I have to work with a preponderancy of files that were patently created in, or converted to, sRGB but are untagged.

Sure, I can mostly solve the problem by blasting sRGB tags onto untagged images and then putting them into a tagged workflow, but that doesn't do anything for my users who are getting magenta monstrosities when they print from Apple apps like Safari or Preview.

sRGB is a truly abysmal standard, but that doesn't mean that those of us out in the real world don't have to deal with it.

If Apple is going to have any future cred in color it is going to have to make it easy for the naive user to produce quality prints from any program: That means that untagged web and digicam photos print spot-on. The only way I can see to do that is to embrace sRGB for untagged images as the default and let advanced users change the preference.

By the way: How could anyone hired to program Mac OS X color issues be so unaware of color-management as to assign the monitor profile as the source?


-=-Dennis
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References: 
 >ColorSync preferences, Preview issues (From: John Zimmerer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: use of sRGB as a default (From: "Dennis W. Manasco" <email@hidden>)

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