Re: Using Apple virtual instruments from my software
Re: Using Apple virtual instruments from my software
- Subject: Re: Using Apple virtual instruments from my software
- From: Dave Oshinsky <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:48:26 -0500
On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:18 AM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>
> On Nov 22, 2010, at 21:48, Dave Oshinsky wrote:
>> On Nov 22, 2010, at 3:27 PM, B.J. Buchalter wrote:
>>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 9:35 PM, Brian Willoughby wrote:
>>>> (*) In other words, if Apple made all of the Logic plugins available to your application, then how would they distinguish Logic? Also, if GarageBand had as much flexibility as Logic, then two things would happen: Many users would be confused by the additional options, and Logic would not be very differentiated from GarageBand. I think that Apple has hit the right balance, by keeping a few plugins exclusive to Logic, with simplified versions for less-sophisticated GarageBand users, and a handful of practical AudioUnits that make a good basis for any audio application.
>>>
>>> You would still need Logic. In fact, that may well sell MORE copies of Logic. For example -- you have DP user who wants to use the Logic VI's. So they have to buy a copy of Logic, even if they don't want to use Logic as their DAW. Nice backdoor marketing.
> Such a business plan would require that Apple move the licensing and copy protection from the Logic application into each and every Logic plugin - that would be a substantial amount of work. Plugin development is rewarding when the plugins work only with a dedicated platform that customers must purchase from the plugin developer, but it becomes a big investment loss when those plugins are available to run on any platform - unless you add licensing code.
Yes, it would be substantial work for Apple to enable access to its virtual instruments as Audio Units. But I assume a license check could be done while initializing each instrument.
>> Apple very well might sell more copies of Logic if the VI's were of use elsewhere. On the other hand, this might give the pirates of the world more motivation to steal a copy rather than pay for it. More important than Logic and Jam Pack sales, is the fact that Apple would like to sell millions and millions of Macs, and encouraging potential "killer apps" in the music domain could only help with that goal.
> A lot of people do not use the Mac to create music, and thus Apple's expense of providing commercial plugins for free would be completely wasted on the average customer. It would only serve to raise the general price of the Mac when it's better to have Logic users pay for the advanced music creation features. In fact, there aren't millions and millions of music producers out there - the industry simply isn't that large. You're suggestion a great deal of work for a very meager return.
These VI plug-ins would not be provided for free. They would require purchasing a copy of Logic (assuming GB instruments remain non Audio Units), and a license check could be done when the instrument gets initialized. This would enable a "standard Mac music environment" (with Logic installed) that any third party developer could build on top of. Nothing like that exists on Windows AFAIK, and this could be one more thing that helps Apple sell millions of Macs. Many people do use the Mac for producing music (witness the massive success of GB).
>> It does seem that the history of GB and Logic, coming from Emagic folks originally, is helping to keep all of this software "closed". So, I've decided to spend my own $$ testing out alternative software like Native Instruments Kontakt (exists on Windows too !!), rather than upgrading my copy of Logic Express. Apple has lost my $$ here.
> I think you will find that Native Instruments is just as closed as Logic. At least I don't think you'll be able to develop an application which leverages Kontakt plugs unless every one of your users purchases a license for Kontakt. Actually, I believe that Kontakt plugins only work in Native Instruments host applications. In that respect, I think you have lost sight of your original goal, because switching from Apple to NI does not gain you anything. You mention that Kontakt runs on Windows, but this is the CoreAudio mailing list, and CoreAudio does not run on Windows. If you want to do cross-platform development, then you're almost certainly in the wrong place. But cross-platform is still not the same thing as "open" - I suggest that a dose of practical experience with audio software development would help you understand the situation more clearly.
Open is not the same thing as free. By open, I mean here that a software interface is provided so that other software (besides Apple's own) can initialize and "play the instruments" without inconvenient setup for the end user. With Logic, this is already possible via virtual MIDI, but it seems awkward to setup (for the end user). With GB, multiple simultaneous instruments from non-Apple software seems impossible (no MIDI channel can be assigned to each track AFAIK), and it could remain that way to further differentiate Logic from GB.
Kontakt is not free, but it is more open than the Logic VI's since third party software (e.g., any DAW, including Logic) can initialize and play any Kontakt instrument that has been installed (either via Audio Unit or VST). I will find out exactly how convenient this is to setup (end user) and access (from software). Cross-platform is another aspect of open (open = giving more choices to developers and end users). I can port my software to Windows (MusicKit runs there), and by properly abstracting out some of the lower level pieces for initializing and controlling VI's (including Core Audio calls), much of the code (non-UI at least, unless GNUstep is really great on Windows) is in common between Mac and Windows.
I have a day job developing non-music software (much of it cross-platform), and a dose of audio software development would indeed help me understand things more clearly. Alas, doing things "after hours" takes a LONG time for me. I was hoping for just a bit of friendly advice from someone "in the business", but it seems it's more likely that I'm in for criticism by posting here. _______________________________________________
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