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Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]
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Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]


  • Subject: Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]
  • From: Andrew Satori <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:45:04 -0400


On May 3, 2005, at 4:40 PM, D. Walsh wrote:

Build issues occur because their is no consitency in the process in which Apple has built the supplied OS libraries, the format for libraries built with gcc4.0 is different for those built with gcc3.3 and are are not compatible.

There is consistency, and it's targeted specifically at the most important portion of the system, the graphical application layer. Some of those broke as well, look at things like Cisco's VPN Client or Microsoft's Virtual PC extensions for Shared Networking. These are changes that are best for the platform. They do mean some short term discomfort for the people that believe that ./ configure;make;make install; is an installer (it isn't, Developer Tools have no place on a true user desktop), that's one of the reasons why OS X is better suited to consumer usage. This is not a problem in the process, it is a problem with perception.



GNome 2.8 can be built in 10.3, there is already a nice blog on the process but it now wont build in 10.4 so another project is left waiting for someone with superior intelligence to figure out how to make it work so the rest of us can build it.

This was my point, I've built both by hand, without Fink or DarwinPorts. It's not a trivial task, and it exposes the massive flaws in the assumption that autotools, package config and friends are suited to the task of building and installing software by non- developers. I'm not trying to offend, the reality is that it is unrealistic to expect software designed to Linux or Windows, and then ported to the Autotools build system are going to be properly prepared to install software on a system that is not it's native environment and has been newly released into the wild.


You are implying I must now learn extensive programming syntax for C, C++ and other languages just to get projects to build in 10.4 despite the gcc version being used.

I am not implying any such thing. I am saying that you cannot have things both ways. Gnu implies Open Source, in fact, Gnu requires Open Source, and as such discourages binary installations, which would in fact resolve your problem. As zziplib built on 10.3.9 runs fine on 10.4, it's only the compiling of it that is causing you anguish, and that my friend is the unfortunate weakness of the Gnu, and most OSS build systems, it assumes that the user is also a developer.


As a thought, I copied the gcc3.3 dependancy files from 10.3.9 into 10.4 and wouldn't you know it, many projects started building.

It didn't the solve the ClamAV build problem but I can now build most other projects while I wait for someone to fix it.

This isn't really a solution, it's kinda like taking a sledge hammer to a finish nail :-), and it creates some deeper issues in your build system that it's unlikely that anyone that doesn't know the history of your build environment would ever be able to solve.


Out of curiosity, I took a few minutes to look at zziplib, it's an include / autotools generated file issue, if I wasn't in the middle of trying to wrap up a project for a customer, I'd take the time to fix it. Since I don't have the time right now, I'd like to point you to another mailing list that may be able to help you out. Apple offers and excellent resource for Mac OS X developers that do Unix like work called unix-porting. The subscribers there are the cream of the crop of unix to mac developers, and if anyone can help you solve the problem in a timely manner, they are the folks to do it.

http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/unix-porting

I hope that this helps and gets you up and running, but griping about Xcode2, which has literally nothing to do with the problems you are having, and being angry at a company, and more specifically a group of developers that have poured countless hours, both paid and unpaid, frequently at the expense of time with their families is a little bit over the line. GCC4 is a great step forward for software, and the adoption of it by Apple is great, but Apple is the first major vendor to do so, RedHat, Novell, Mandriva, Linspire, Debian, Ubuntu have not done so yet. It's a testament to the talent and effort that went into this project that as many things do work, over the things that are off the beaten path, or in the case of zziplib, which hasn't been updated in over a year.

Andy



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References: 
 >command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4] (From: "D. Walsh" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4] (From: Andrew Satori <email@hidden>)
 >Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4] (From: "D. Walsh" <email@hidden>)

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