Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]
Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]
- Subject: Re: command line building - I'm pissed at Apple [10.4]
- From: Andrew Satori <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:45:04 -0400
On May 3, 2005, at 4:40 PM, D. Walsh wrote:
Build issues occur because their is no consitency in the process in
which Apple has built the supplied OS libraries, the format for
libraries built with gcc4.0 is different for those built with
gcc3.3 and are are not compatible.
There is consistency, and it's targeted specifically at the most
important portion of the system, the graphical application layer.
Some of those broke as well, look at things like Cisco's VPN Client
or Microsoft's Virtual PC extensions for Shared Networking. These
are changes that are best for the platform. They do mean some short
term discomfort for the people that believe that ./
configure;make;make install; is an installer (it isn't, Developer
Tools have no place on a true user desktop), that's one of the
reasons why OS X is better suited to consumer usage. This is not a
problem in the process, it is a problem with perception.
GNome 2.8 can be built in 10.3, there is already a nice blog on the
process but it now wont build in 10.4 so another project is left
waiting for someone with superior intelligence to figure out how to
make it work so the rest of us can build it.
This was my point, I've built both by hand, without Fink or
DarwinPorts. It's not a trivial task, and it exposes the massive
flaws in the assumption that autotools, package config and friends
are suited to the task of building and installing software by non-
developers. I'm not trying to offend, the reality is that it is
unrealistic to expect software designed to Linux or Windows, and then
ported to the Autotools build system are going to be properly
prepared to install software on a system that is not it's native
environment and has been newly released into the wild.
You are implying I must now learn extensive programming syntax for
C, C++ and other languages just to get projects to build in 10.4
despite the gcc version being used.
I am not implying any such thing. I am saying that you cannot have
things both ways. Gnu implies Open Source, in fact, Gnu requires
Open Source, and as such discourages binary installations, which
would in fact resolve your problem. As zziplib built on 10.3.9 runs
fine on 10.4, it's only the compiling of it that is causing you
anguish, and that my friend is the unfortunate weakness of the Gnu,
and most OSS build systems, it assumes that the user is also a
developer.
As a thought, I copied the gcc3.3 dependancy files from 10.3.9 into
10.4 and wouldn't you know it, many projects started building.
It didn't the solve the ClamAV build problem but I can now build
most other projects while I wait for someone to fix it.
This isn't really a solution, it's kinda like taking a sledge hammer
to a finish nail :-), and it creates some deeper issues in your build
system that it's unlikely that anyone that doesn't know the history
of your build environment would ever be able to solve.
Out of curiosity, I took a few minutes to look at zziplib, it's an
include / autotools generated file issue, if I wasn't in the middle
of trying to wrap up a project for a customer, I'd take the time to
fix it. Since I don't have the time right now, I'd like to point you
to another mailing list that may be able to help you out. Apple
offers and excellent resource for Mac OS X developers that do Unix
like work called unix-porting. The subscribers there are the cream
of the crop of unix to mac developers, and if anyone can help you
solve the problem in a timely manner, they are the folks to do it.
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/unix-porting
I hope that this helps and gets you up and running, but griping about
Xcode2, which has literally nothing to do with the problems you are
having, and being angry at a company, and more specifically a group
of developers that have poured countless hours, both paid and unpaid,
frequently at the expense of time with their families is a little bit
over the line. GCC4 is a great step forward for software, and the
adoption of it by Apple is great, but Apple is the first major vendor
to do so, RedHat, Novell, Mandriva, Linspire, Debian, Ubuntu have not
done so yet. It's a testament to the talent and effort that went
into this project that as many things do work, over the things that
are off the beaten path, or in the case of zziplib, which hasn't been
updated in over a year.
Andy
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