Re: Any WWDC News
Re: Any WWDC News
- Subject: Re: Any WWDC News
- From: Trae Nickelson <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:53:49 -0500
Hi Karl,
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate the time and thought. I hope
it's okay if I copy the list with your last reply. I think this is
important stuff and you make some great points.
You are absolutely right in your assessment of the problems with the
other vendors (IBM, BEA, et al). But you articulate the core of the
problem with Apple itself that is causing all of us frustration.
WebObjects is NOT a partial solution - for most intents, it is
everything it needs to be. If Apple would just get in the game, it
could blow the others away 8 out of 10 times! I do not doubt this fact
for a second. But they choose not to enter the game! It's
inconceivable. It's inexcusable. It's disgusting.
Do you ever stop to contemplate how much easier you job would be, how
many more cool projects you would be involved in, how much more you
would be earning, if WebObjects was where it should be? You could
create a resume and not have to surround your credentials with "J2EE,
.NET, BEA, etc." just so potential clients/employers would understand
the breadth of your skills. It could just say "WebObjects" (and a few
other things granted) and you would be a marketable resource getting
paid top dollar. No more educating clients and fighting on Apple's
behalf for the approval to do a project in WebObjects. No more being
forced to use inferior technology. Your life would be a lot different
my friend. It should be different. And its Apple's fault - and only
Apple's fault - that it is not so.
You ask what I am longing for. That's it. I want to make a living - a
good living - as a WebObjects developer. I'm good, WebObjects is good
- you tell me what's missing.
You ask Do you deserve to know what is going on with WebObjects? Karl,
you just spent a lot of money, and potentially traveled a long way, to
learn the future of WebObjects. I think you do deserve a road-map. I
think you do deserve a lot more than a "warm feeling". That's what
they promised you. The real shame of it, is that the warm feeling you
received was probably 98% generated by the other WO developers that you
met there. You were affirmed for another year that you are not alone.
You deserve more. We all do.
You mention that M$ has hired half of the NeXT engineers to build
WO-like features into .NET. Do you realize that that is the best piece
of WebObjects news that I have heard in 4 years? You can bet M$ won't
let this awesome technology rot on the vine. (It was painful for me to
have to say that. I'm pissed at Apple that it's the truth.)
My friends call me and Apple fanatic. That's not really true. I
always smugly tell them that I only use Apple products because they are
the best out there, and I assure them that if something better comes
along (which I usually doubt will ever happen), someone else will get
my business.
I guess I'm just asking you and other list subscribers not to take it
lying down anymore. Surely we can shake things up a bit.
Sincere respect,
Trae
On Jun 30, 2004, at 4:41 PM, Karl Gretton wrote:
Hi Trae,
My problem is that most vendors either lie or are overly optimistic.
Or they develop something thats a partial solution. I have been
disappointed time and again with IBM, BEA, Java, SilverStream and
countless other Java app server products that constantly force me to
redesign or rewrite applications. And Apple is sensible with its
pricing and doesn't still insist on charging me $50,000 per server for
the privilege of running its software. Apple makes its money from
selling hardware more than anything else. it wants BEA, Oracle and
other products on its hardware.
Do I deserve to know? That depends. Will it make a difference to my
life today? Not really. I have received enough information about
where WO is going to get a nice warm feeling. Met with lots of people
at Apple who do nothing other than write great WO Apps.
What is it that you are longing for? As I said, WO Builder is a
deficiency but most of us probably just hand code the bindings. The
design / art side is done by someone else anyway.
There is nothing today in WO that prevents us from building and
delivering great solutions. And if there is something special we
need, there are a bunch of open source projects to give us that bit
extra or point us in the direction to build something ourself.
We have a clear idea of where Apple is going with WO Tools. They
stood up and told us that getting Xcode to work better with WO is a
priority and making sure that the new 2.0 features work with WO when
Xcode 2.0 ships next year. Apple clearly stated that they have no
plans to do anything at all for WO Tools on Windows or Linux. They
acknowledge that Eclipse with WOLips and WOProject provides a viable
alternative to their tools.
In addition, they were frank about their most often requested features
and they plan upon giving that some attention. They have been clear
about where Apple is going with Java and Java/WO. 1.5 is there now as
a developer preview.
Will my WO code from years ago still work with WO 5.2? Yes. Will it
continue to work well with future releases? Apple assures us that it
will....it has to because so many of their own apps rely upon it.
Would I rather Apple gave me a list of promises for next year? Not
really. I am happy to be surprised and pleased when Apple addresses
each issue in turn.
The documentation has gotten better. The product quality is
improving. I think that it has Apple's attention - it just isn't sexy
for the mainstream media.
Will WO announcements shock Microsoft? Not really. They already
have half the original NeXT engineers trying to build WO-alike
features into the next (sic) releases of M$ .NET.
Just my two cents.
Karl
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