Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- Subject: Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- From: David Sanchez <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:50:15 -0400
On Aug 26, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
Hi!
On 2006/08/26, at 09:12, David Sanchez wrote:
Of course they do. But for how long?
Besides, any time Apple can just stop them to work with no prior
notice. Also, it means there is no bug fixing, no support and no
updated documentation.
True, but who needs them anyway? The old tools are cool, but
buggy and clearly had many problems. Open source alternatives, like
WOLips, are better, and even apple employes use them. So, isn't it
a better thing that those 4 people can concentrate on the
technology itself, and not on the tools and specially on the Java-
Cocoa bridge that gives them a hard time on every new Java version?
I honestly do think so. And is Mike and all the other guys beyond
WOLips could do what they did with the limited info they had,
imagine what they can do now with official support from Apple, and
access to the formats and protocols used by the tools.
So, is it possible that in some future (near future), all Apple
official documentation will be updated to WOLips?
I am installing the WO plugin for Eclipse. I will follow Apple docs
with the deprecated tools and try to find everything on the Eclipse
tool. It is already hard to learn something new, let's see if I can
expand my mind with this.
I am not yet completely comfortable with Eclipse plugins distribution
scheme. I would really prefer a package to install everything I need.
It does not seem like a Macintosh way of installing things.
And, some people commented about IntelliJ/IDEA... ¿Is it better than
the Eclipse for WO?
From what I know Apple's in house people use Eclipse (I maybe
wrong but I don't think so)
If that's the case, then the situation is worse than I thought.
Not because Eclipse is a bad environment, but because Apple is
not drinking its own Kool-Aid.
Yes it is. iTunes Store is a major business for Apple right now
(the most important one, some say). And it totally relies on WO.
They eat their own god food, yeah. And they are so cool that they
let us taste it as well! :) xCode is a very good environment for
Cocoa/ObjC developers, and that's what they are focusing in. They
cannot compete with Eclipse and other stuff for Java, because they
are SO much better. So, they wont. Why should Apple reinvent the weel?
Sorry if I did not write properly. I was not talking about WO itself,
but the tools they provide in XCode.
But, one of the things I like is an integrated environment. If I
take apart the Apple made tools (which are deprecated), old
documentation (that won't be updated), a very small developing
team (even though they might be geniuses, it is a lot of work for
4 people) and I need to use an open source plugin with Eclipse,
forums and tutorials from third parties.... At the end, WebObject
looks a lot like Cayenne/Tapestry.
Not so. The documentation has been updated until the latest
public version (5.3), 5.4 is still in works. It could have some
better docs for newbies, I agree with that, but that's WAY
DIFFERENT that saying it's old and not updated. The documentation
is there, and it's very good. You just have to install Eclipse and
WOLips. What's the big deal? Many of us did so, even while xCode
and the tools existed, because we prefer Eclipse for one reason or
another. We won't see a change there.
That's a little arguable. I think. Documentation still talks about
Project Builder and such, with screenshots and all.
Even though I am a newbie in WO, I know XCode, but not everyone does.
So, if they start talking about Project Builder and such it gets
bizarre for new programmers.
And, I won't have to pay for the Tiger Server license to deploy.
No you don't. I have some stuff delpoyed on OS X Client. It's
legal and it works as good as in the server. All the deamons and
modules are already there - just remove some commented lines on a
startup script and let them fly.
This is the first time I read this. To be honest, I find that very
interesting.
If it is legal, this could mean a lot for small enterprises, which do
not need an XServe, but can afford a bunch of Macintoshes (Which now
days seem easier to sell). At least, to try the solutions for a
little while before jumping into an XServe.
I would really appreciate if you can tell me how to do it, or point
me in the right direction.
I mean, maybe WebObject is superior to Cayenne/Tapestry, I do not
know WO that well yet, but I do not see where WO is going.
WO will live for years.
I love learning about technologies, but if WO is not going
anywhere (not better, not worse), sooner or later, competitors are
gonna get better tools than WO.
That did not happen on the last 10 years. Maybe SOMEDAY some
other technology will be better than WO. So what? On that day,
learn it and migrate. Will you learn another technology NOW just
because you GUESS that SOMEDAY it will be better than WO? Now that
sounds risky to me... a lot more than investing in WO!
Four people is too small. Apple has about 10 thousand employees,
and 10 percent of them must be programmers (about 1 thousand,
maybe less). If Apple, can only dedicate 4 people to WO, it does
not look like they believe in the technology.
I don't believe a company would base one of it's key business in
a technology they don't believe in. But that's just me...
Also, in the RoR web page, they state RoR will be included in
Leopard.
Of course. As many other stuff, like perl and PHP and Python. RoR
is popular and sells. Apple wants to sell servers. So they include
RoR. Great!
I hope I can say... welcome to WO! :)
Thank you,
To be honest, I still have many questions, but I will give a
reasonable doubt. Besides, many people comment how great WO is, so I
need to know it better and fully appreciate it.
So I will continue learning and studying it. At least for now. I find
it is still a viable alternative to JDeveloper/ADF.
If everything goes wrong, well, I guess I could adapt some of the
knowledge to Cayenne/Tapestry.
But, as you might guess, I will keep asking some "stupid things",
since documentation is not very up to date.
David Sanchez _______________________________________________
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