Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- Subject: Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- From: David LeBer <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:49:45 -0400
On 26-Aug-06, at 12:09 PM, David Sanchez wrote:
On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:42 AM, Paul Lynch wrote:
On 26 Aug 2006, at 16:04, David Sanchez wrote:
On Aug 26, 2006, at 6:31 AM, Paul Lynch wrote:
On 26 Aug 2006, at 09:19, David Sanchez wrote:
Looking into J2EE, Cayenne/Tapestry can compete with WO?
No. Integration in a framework and the quality of its tools
count for a lot (and are usually undercredited).
I do not understand this fully. So, WO integrates better and have
better tools (even though those are not from Apple).
Most web server environments don't include all that is in WO.
Making them all interface smoothly is a major task, and involves
considerable extra work when compared to a pure WO deployment.
The (Apple supplied) WO tools, XCode, WOBuilder and EOModeler,
make managing the definition files that are required very much
easier. Try a Spring/Hibernate deployment, or J2EE, to see what I
mean. Configuration files can amount to more lines than your
actual code, and maintaining them by hand isn't a joyful
experience - WO tools substantially reduce this hassle.
This is one area where Rails is strong - their philosophy is to
avoid configuration files by assuming reasonable defaults, what I
call "programming by consensus". WebObjects approach isn't as
extreme, and has the advantage of being more flexible.
I know. I absolutely agree with every thing you say.
I hope, XCode will be used to develop WO in the future. I do not
know how because Cocoa-bridge is deprecated. They would need to re-
write all the WO apps to use Objective-C and generate Java code,
made them full Java Apps or just do not provide them anymore.
But if Apple thinks about making all the WO tools pure Java (or
pure Objective-C), Why did they not show those apps first and later
deprecate the old ones? Instead of deprecating and leave amateurs
wondering....
That's the little thing that I cannot understand.
Lets look at this from a completely different (hypothetical) angle:
The WO Frameworks have a very large number of Apple developers
pounding on them daily. These developers are working on projects that
range from internal ones we never see to the external high profile
ones like iTMS and .Mac. Some of the projects arguably are the
highest trafficked WebObjects applications on the planet. I'm sure
these developers are finding bugs - and fixing them because they need
their stuff to work and they have access to the code. Many (though
not all) are *not* using Xcode+WOBuilder+EOModeler to build their apps.
The WO Tools have a very small number of Apple developers assigned to
them (Maybe 4, maybe less). The task of completely recreating the WO
tools stack (I used "stack", do I get a prize?) sans a dependency to
the Cocoa-Java bridge is virtually impossible given the resources
available.
So from a completely pragmatic standpoint, if you were in charge of
allocating resources for the tools within Apple, and you saw that the
WOCommunity(tm) was doing an arguably better job at the task you were
facing, would that not give you some ideas? Might you not say: "If we
drop the tools development, we can free up resources to focus on
improving the Frameworks and integrate the fixes and enhancements our
internal groups are finding into the public releases".
That is what I think happened.
For me, the bottom line is this: Regardless of what is going on in
house at Apple, the boost this has given the WOCommunity is priceless.
Disclaimer: This is all conjecture, I have no inside information,
feel free to dismiss it if you wish.
--
;david
--
David LeBer
Codeferous Software
'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing'
site: http://www.codeferous.com
blog: http://david.codeferous.com
--
Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group:
http://www.tacow.org
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