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Re: WebObjects become opensource ?
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Re: WebObjects become opensource ?


  • Subject: Re: WebObjects become opensource ?
  • From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:26:35 -0700


On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Mike Schrag wrote:

If you were well-versed in ANY field, wouldn't your scenario equally be true? If I'm a mechanic and you come up with a new engine design, once I see what you've done and how you've done it, it's probably pretty easy for me to make one ... I have no idea about Pharma, but I presume that once a drug is released, it's probably pretty easy for generics to replicate it. It does seem there should be some consideration for that, and the patent system is the current answer to that. Why should software be in some other category?

Also, re: MP3/JPEG (and things like RSA fall into this category too) -- It's grunt work to do it once someone already has defined a spec, or figured it out and you cheat off their paper, but it's no small feat to come up with it in the first place. This is sort of the point, it seems to me. Stealing the idea is always easier than making it first, so we have patents to give incentive to people to bother coming up with it first. There's obviously a failure window in the patent system for the guy who truly independently develops it, but I don't really see a way to close that gap -- i think it's a weakness you have accept for the greater good of the imperfect system.

Mind you, I'm not even saying I'm for them at the moment -- I'm pretty well on the fence about it. I'm certainly not for the way they are currently implemented/granted in the US, but a bad implementation doesn't necessarily make the entire concept wrong. Certainly in the US, the current implementation of the system (both in granting and in enforcement/litigation) greatly favors the big guy.

I think the badly flawed and badly abused US implementation makes this issue cloudier than it should be. So far, I agree with Mike that the idea of software patents can be a good thing, if properly implemented. I think the nature of software makes proper implementation harder than with physical inventions as it is harder for non-developers to grasp what is being patented and whether it deserves protection or not.



Chuck




Out of curiosity, are you against traditional patents? I still can't reconcile a meaningful difference -- i recognize there probably IS a difference, but I just haven't been able to come up with a lucid explanation of the difference.

ms

On Sep 15, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Anjo Krank wrote:

Sorry, can't resist :) From what I understand is that your supreme court basically said that everything man-made under the sun should be patentable. Recently even they finally came to their sense and said it had to have some physical component.

The reason (as I understand it) is that patents are *not* for the benefit of the holders. They are to get holders to disclose on their stuff and to get a limited monopoly in return. This is to *promote* innovation so that others can simply look at the patent and build from that.

I find it pretty hard to imagine a concept in IT that is hard enough for someone well-versed in the field (not IT, the special application) that you can't come up with too once you see it can be done. The reason being it's pretty cheap. Look at MP3 for example, or JPEG. Once you got the idea that you *can* compress images or sounds with some math crap, it's only grunt-work to do it. LAME took about a year from a crappy patch-set to the final product.

Cheers, Anjo



Am 15.09.2009 um 22:19 schrieb Mike Schrag:

That example is tricky. Data structures can be considered mathematical concepts
sorry .. lazy example .. i kind of intended that in the "objecty" sense --- "data structure + algorithm". as i understand it, you would not (at least in the US) be able to patent a data structure (and technically not JUST an algorithm either). i believe you patent the use of a particular data structure + algorithm to solve a SPECIFIC problem.

ms

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References: 
 >WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Stephane Guyot <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Tim Worman <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Nowak <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Nowak <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: David LeBer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Nowak <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Anjo Krank <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: AndrĂ© Mitra <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Q <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Anjo Krank <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Miguel Arroz <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Anjo Krank <email@hidden>)
 >Re: WebObjects become opensource ? (From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>)

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