Re: problems installing xquartz
Re: problems installing xquartz
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 11:00:22AM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
> Entirely correct --- but this, from a user experience standpoint, is its
> biggest failing. I submit for your consideration copy/paste (one of the
> most frequent user issues in the xmonad community): not only are there
> multiple incompatible copy/paste systems, but you cannot make xterm behave
> in the same way that other programs do without source hacks.
I know of only one cut/paste method in X11, and it is quite compatible with
itself. Now, if you ADD OS X, that's different. But that's not X11's
fault. Nor is it native OS X's fault. The blame for that goes to
whoever mixed the two, and wrote in the broken bridge between the two
cut/paste methods, which fails after some amount of timeand never works
again. Neither one individually is at fault.
As for my little hack, using Tcl/Tk, I posted it either here or in
MacPorts, so whoever wants it is welcome to it. With a bit of extra
work, it can be modified to be put entirely in the background, detect
changes to either one, and copy it to a server for the other environment,
without any need for user interaction, to REPLACE the broken bridge
between X's and OS X's cut/paste interface. Anyone who wants to do this
is quite welcome to either built it on their own (shouldn't take more
than about 10 to 20 lines of code for each of the two client/server apps)
or modify what I've already written. But what I have works fine for my
needs. Maybe if someone asks nicely......
> And, of
> course, it's quite impossible to make X11 programs on OS X behave like
> native programs; there are always small but annoying oddities at best, and
> often complete dissonance.
Again, you're not talking about X11. Nor are you talking about OS X's
native UI. You're talking about the two, combined. X11 doesn't suck
just because it and OS X are different. It's the COMBINATION that has
issues, not either of the two by itself. I'm really surprised to see
you blaming either by itself---you've always struck me as being way too
smart to do that (note that I mean that in a positive, not negative,
tone). Once again, you're blaming X, and it isn't X's fault. And, FWIW,
I have yet to see whatever this bit is that you're referring to. I have
everything working nicely in sync with each other, and use both
environments together many times per day, every day, and it works great.
Right now, I'm using Mutt in a large xterm window, with a clock (running
under a native OS X version of Tcl/Tk) that I wrote sitting in the
upper-left corner of every workspace, with xeyes right next to it (I
sometimes, thanks to what the 2.5cm tumor did to my vision, need help
finding the mouse pointer).
I use Opera (native OS X) with an xterm behind it for notes on some
topics, copy/paste (or, if you prefer, snarf & barf) between the two
routinely. After finding out how to configure Mutt not to split URLs
that split over multiple lines (which the sender didn't use TinyURL
or something similar to shorten) with a + character, I can just copy
the link, transfer it over to the OS X cut/paste buffer, and from
there, go straight to Opera. And again, if I really wanted to, I
could setup a dual client/server version that would do this on its
own. I just haven't felt the need to do so.
So I really don't see the issues that you're talking about, especially
the ones you imply are exclusively X's fault (by only blaming X11).
Later,
--jim
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