Re: problems installing xquartz
Re: problems installing xquartz
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 01:40:06PM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Jim Graham <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 11:00:22AM -0500, Brandon Allbery wrote:
> > > biggest failing. I submit for your consideration copy/paste (one of the
> > > most frequent user issues in the xmonad community): not only are there
> > > multiple incompatible copy/paste systems, but you cannot make xterm
> > behave
> > > in the same way that other programs do without source hacks.
> >
> > I know of only one cut/paste method in X11, and it is quite compatible with
> >
>
> Really? You've never tried to copy/paste text between something using the
> instant-copy PRIMARY and the pasteboard-based CLIPBOARD selections?
In X11 by itself (i.e., on any Unix, not just a Mac), no, I can't say
that I have. And on my Mac, the PRIMARY ceased to exist (that's why I
made that custom hack to copy from X to OS X). I CAN copy from X to X
using the "normal" method (select with mouse, middle-click in another
window), so I'm not sure why that works when PRIMARY is gone, but it
does. I would, however, appreciate it if someone would tell me how to
restore PRIMARY to my system (X11 settings don't work for that).
> Take a look at the herd of hacks to deal with them (by means of a
> mostly-obsolete *third* mechanism, cut buffers! I'm just grateful
> nobody ever made significant use of SECONDARY to make things even
> weirder): xcutsel, autocutsel, etc.
Again, I'm NOT an X developer. For X, I only care that it works.
> > Again, you're not talking about X11. Nor are you talking about OS X's
> You have different and sometimes incompatible behaviors between:
>
> Xt+Xaw programs
Such as? If I've used any of these, I haven't seen any conflicts.
> Xt+Motif programs
I don't use Motif (IMO, Motif is butt ugly)
> Gtk+/Gnome programs
I've never used Gtk/Gnome. And yes, I blew it away as soon as I saw it
cause all kinds of crap with my other X11 programs. But it wasn't X11's
fault...it was Gtk/Gnome's fault. Without it, X11 was working fine on
its own. So how is this X11's problem?
> Qt/KDE programs
Ditto for Qt/KDE.
> Tk programs
But at least some of those are add-ons, not a part of stock X11. Is X11
itself to blame if someone writes some incompatible code for an add-on?
Consider this example. I (not knowing how to do this) write a new UI
for native OS X. You use this fictional UI, and it sucks royally. Are
you going to blame OS X, or my fictional add-on?
Let's take another example: I (again, not knowing what I'm doing) build
a graphics lib that just happens to collide with a lot of straight X11
code, and thus causes problems. You'd blame X11 itself, right? Or would
you blame the REAL culprit, my hypothetical graphics lib? Right now, it
APPEARS that you're blaming X11 itself.
As far as Tk goes, I use Tcl/Tk extensively, and have yet to see
conflicts with other X11 programs (or, if we roll in OS X's native UI,
no problems there, either). I wrote a hurricane tracking program in
Tcl/Tk. Again, no conflicts that I've seen or had reported to me by
users. And again, Tcl/Tk and PERL/Tk are not part of X. They're
graphics tools that can work under X11 or native environments.
> ask FreeBSD users about cvsup's GUI sometime)
I never used cvsup on FreeBSD, Linux, SunOS, CrayOS, Slowaris, UNIX
(on a 3B2 way back when), AIX (spit), Ultrix (I could add BSD on a big
VAX and SYSV UNIX on an AT&T 3B2, but if either of those had X installed,
it was a VERY old---probably alpha---version, and I never used X on
either). So I can't really address that part.
All I'm saying is that if the problem is truly a part of plain old X11,
then blame it on X11. If it's a part of an add-on or graphics lib that
is not part of stock X11 (it might be released WITH X11, but may not be
part of ALL of X11, if that makes any sense).
There's a solitaire game pack (xpat2) that I've used on X11 with Linux,
FreeBSD, and Mac OS X that has the OPTION to use libXaw, for example.
But it builds just fine without it. HOWEVER, unlike X11 on Linux and
FreeBSD, I never got it to compile with Xaw on my Mac, even though
libXaw was installed.. If this is truly a problem of plain old stock
X11, please explain why the prolem only seems to exist on my Mac, where
on my other (former) systems, all it took was a simple ./configure, make,
and (after an su) make install.
Later,
--jim
--
THE SCORE: ME: 2 CANCER: 0
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