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Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass
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Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass


  • Subject: Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass
  • From: "James Chandler Jr" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 11:35:32 -0400

Interesting. AFAIK, a typical way analog mixers do stereo pan: When pan is center, left and right are unity gain. When you pan right, turn down left channel and vice-versa.

Maybe there are other better ways, since a stereo pan with this method would alter perceived volume. But when panned center, am guessing one would want unity gain on both stereo channels (to avoid mucking up the gain-staging), and I don't think one would necessarily desire a channel boost over-unity when panned off-center. Any over-unity gain could be bad on stereo sources that are already peaking right up near the redline.

Maybe preserving perceived loudness is a 'lost cause' when panning stereo sources, since radically different audio could be on left vs right. If left-hand piano is panned down, it wouldn't improve perceived volume to boost the gain on the right hand piano channel.

But often center-panned mono signals are attenuated -3 dB (to both channels), and if hard-panned, one channel goes to zero and the other channel goes to unity gain. That seems to agree with your findings. The mono scheme also avoids over-unity gain, to avoid possible clipping on loud sources. If mono center-pan involved +3 dB gain, it could be bad.

So maybe it is a quandary. The 'right thing to do' for mono-to-stereo would be to duplicate the mono on both channels, which would give the boost on a mixer as above-described. Its what would happen with an analog mixer if you use a Y cord to connect a mono source to a stereo trackstrip. Dunno if a user would appreciate his mono signal getting an automatic -3 dB attenuation when doing mono-to-stereo, in the name of preserving perceived volume.

I allow mono or stereo FX in any FX chain in my hosting. If this isn't allowed in a program, it is annoying if your only instance of a plugin is stereo and you need to insert it to a mono track or vice-versa. The program MIGHT have a mono plugin followed by a stereo plugin followed by another mono plugin. If mono-to-stereo between-plugins duplicates the channel, and stereo-to-mono attenuates the channels -6 dB then adds them, it doesn't lead to obvious gain problems in a long FX chain with possible multiple conversions. If the signal is a 1.0 peak sine, mono to stereo gives two 1.0 peak sines, then stereo to mono gives 0.5 + 0.5 = 1.0.

In that case, doing something fancy to preserve perceived volume on conversions, could compound gain-staging problems on a chain of plugins, depending on the assortment of plugins that are chained? Maybe there is a much better way to handle it though.

JCJR

----- Original Message ----- From: "James Closs" <email@hidden>
To: "tahome izwah" <email@hidden>
Cc: "CoreAudio API" <email@hidden>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass




Hi,

I just do the following...

- set up a mono audio file generator in AU lab
- play an audio file through it (in this I have one peaking at -3db according to the meters)
- now insert a mono->stereo apple matrix verb onto the track
- bypass the matrix verb
- my input signal is now peaking at 0db!

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References: 
 >mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass (From: James Closs <email@hidden>)
 >Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass (From: "tahome izwah" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass (From: James Closs <email@hidden>)
 >Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass (From: "tahome izwah" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: mono->stereo effects, input gain handling and bypass (From: James Closs <email@hidden>)

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