Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- Subject: Re: Looks like ThinkSecret got some of the scoop on WO from WWDC'06
- From: Miguel Arroz <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:59:22 +0100
Hi!
Well, there's something we agree - it *would* be nice if Apple had
their own tools, with documentation.
But think on all the other solutions out there. J2EE has tools? As
far as I know, no. Everyone uses third-party Java IDEs. Ruby on Rails
has tools? Everyone uses TextMate or so. If apple pointed WOLips as
the "official" tools for WO, it would still be better than with all
those other tools - and those tools have success.
I understand your concerns about newbies, and I do agree that
there is some learning gap for new people in WO. It already existed
with the tools, and it may be a little bigger without them.
Send Apple feedback with your concerns, so they may know what the
community feels.
Yours
Miguel Arroz
On 2006/08/28, at 14:12, David Avendasora wrote:
On Aug 26, 2006, at 11:19 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
So, is it possible that in some future (near future), all Apple
official documentation will be updated to WOLips?
I don't think so. Apple *may* point you to WOLips, but it's not
their responsibility to write documentation for 3rd party
products. It's up to the WOLips authors to write that kind of
documentation.
I can't agree with this. If the only tools to use the WO framework
are 3rd party (not yet the case, I know, but David's point is
valid), then Apple had better provide some documentation using
those tools, otherwise new users are going to be frustrated by
having one source for the framework and one source for the tools.
I know all the experienced users will have no problem with and will
love the 3rd party tools, but as a new developer it is very
frustrating to try to not only learn a new framework, but then to
have to interpret on-the-fly how to implement the tutorial using
entirely different tools. You don't know if there is something
wrong with your code, or your tool configuration.
To me one of the major initial attractions for new users of WO
***IS*** the Apple-provided tools and documentation. They make
things seem so much simpler, you can have a fully functional proof-
of-concept application without writing ANY code - just follow the
D2JC or D2W wizards then tweak using the assistant. Sure once you
start getting beyond the basics you quickly realize the bugs and
limitations of the tools, but by then you are invested in the
technology and you realize that the true power of WO is not the
tools but the frameworks.
If Apple doesn't provide their own tools in the future (once the
existing ones quit working) or documentation for working with 3rd-
party ones the barrier for even considering WO will be much higher.
As many here have rightly pointed out regarding the WO community,
we need less of "somebody needs to do X" and more "Here's a
solution for X". So here's my commitment: Once I can get my issue
with D2JC figured out (see awakeFromInsertion thread), I will begin
re-implementing the exercises from WO Desktop Applications examples
using WOlips and put them on the Wiki.
Dave
"The world lies in the hands of evil
And we pray it would last" -- Apocalyptica, Life Burns!
Miguel Arroz
http://www.ipragma.com
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